The PROPERTY DOCTORS, Sydney Australia Novak Properties

EP. 1352 PETS IN PROPERTIES: BIG CHANGES SHAKING UP STRATA RULES YOU NEED TO KNOW

• Billy Drury and Greg Williamson • Season 29 • Episode 1352

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Can pets truly be considered family in the ever-evolving landscape of strata living? We engage with Strata specialist Greg Williamson to uncover the significant legislative changes in Australia that have reshaped tenants' rights concerning pet ownership. Through the lens of the groundbreaking 2020 Cooper's case, we explore how the New South Wales government amended the Strata Schemes Management Act, ensuring tenants can no longer be unreasonably denied the companionship of their beloved pets. Greg provides invaluable insights into the transition from cumbersome pet applications to straightforward notification documents, signaling a dramatic shift in the dynamics between tenants and landlords.

Join us as we navigate the emotional connections and challenges pets bring to shared living environments. With expert guidance from Greg, we delve into practical solutions for managing pet-related issues, from modifying bylaws to handling complaints, all while utilizing the expertise of Stedman, Williamson, and Hart. Discover the role of the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal (NCAT) in resolving disputes and learn effective strategies for harmonious community living, including the implementation of pet registers and amenities. Whether you're a tenant, landlord, or member of an owner's corporation, this episode offers essential advice for embracing the new era of pet-friendly strata living.

Speaker 1:

Pets in property. There is about to be a huge shakeup with legislation. We brought on Strata specialist Greg Williamson this morning to find out more. Stay tuned. This is relevant for a lot of people. I'm the ringleader, so let's hit it. Morning, Greg.

Speaker 2:

Morning Billy. How are we?

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for coming on. We know you're a busy man, hard to get a hold of my pleasure. This is a really really fascinating topic what a shake-up.

Speaker 2:

It really has been, and there's more to come.

Speaker 1:

There's more to come.

Speaker 1:

So pets and properties has always been a controversial one. You've always got the tenants saying pets are part of the family. We feel like there's never been enough, you know, stock to accommodate. So it's all made always made things extra hard, extra sort of tricky and selective to get into a rental property and then landlords have sometimes had the position where they're saying we just know it's going to cause trouble. There might be pets in the building and we don't want to add more in. You know, for noise and maybe preferences, some people are allergic so they don't want to come back to their property if it's had a pet in there. All different kinds of reasons. But you're sort of seeing things start to sort of change.

Speaker 2:

Yes, very much. So. Look to give us a little bit of background. Um, according to the rspca, the australia's got around just under 29 million pets and yeah, that's a lot of pets, and that's about 69 of all households in Australia have a pet, and the report that I was reading breaks that down that 48% of that 29 million is dogs, and then that's followed by cats and then obviously budgies and fish and so on and so forth.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, as you said, we don't have time, it's a topic. But they're the majors.

Speaker 2:

No, I can. Yeah, we don't have time, it's a topic, but they're the majors. No, I can. Yeah, and I'm not even going to do them alphabetically, so we won't name the pets, that's right. But yes, it's. Look, I'm going to talk primarily on the strata side. But, as you, you said, legislation's about to change for just normal residential torrents title and, yeah, again, it will be. Following that, that new legislation that is affecting non-strata owners will come into effect probably mid next year. So stay tuned for that. That'll shake up even more part of the industry. But today we're going to be talking about pets in strata and we've seen it over the years. It's been contentious issues while the pets are in there, trying to get pets in there, trying to get pets out, and so on and so forth. Um, so look, the there's gone the biggest change?

Speaker 1:

is this talking about pets on the way in, or is this talking about pets once they're already in the property and then trying to? If there's a disagreement, have pets moved out? Where's the change coming?

Speaker 2:

all right. The change happened back in uh 2020 and there was a famous case called the cooper's case. They had a little furry friend. The owner's corporation tried to get rid of the pet. The owner's corporation successfully had the dog was going to be removed. The owners then took that to the appeals court. It was a unanimous decision that the owners corporation could not remove the animal.

Speaker 2:

And then the New South Wales government acted very quickly in changing the strata legislation by inserting a new section of the Act. And that's where we are now and that means animals pets cannot be unreasonably refused. So the flow to that is an owner's corporation. If they have a no pet bylaw, it's gone, it's yeah, it's outside the act. So we have noticed a lot of owners corporations have not updated their bylaws, but some other owners corporations and executive committees say oh well, you know, that doesn't apply to us. If you're a strata, it applies. It's very simple.

Speaker 2:

And then then people come back and go oh well, we want to refuse on certain grounds, the act comes into play. The animal has to cause a nuisance after they've been in, so you've got to come up with a reason why you're going to not allow it and you can't be preemptive. So look so that our legislation under the Strata Schemes Management Act, as I said, was only less than 12 months after the Cooper's case, so our act changed in 2021. And it, from memory, it actually came into place on 25th of August 2021., so Cooper's case was in October of 2020. So, as you can see, the New South Wales government has jumped on this very rapidly.

Speaker 1:

Quite quickly you know the number one question I get when it comes to pets is how does a buyer or how does an owner put an application in for a pet? When it comes to pets is how does a buyer or how does an owner put an application in for a pet? You know, when it comes to Strata, and often it's just a form, but do you see any sort of behind-the-scenes movements there? Is it just a case of running that by the owner's corporation, like that approval?

Speaker 2:

process. It is. Yeah Well, it's not even a. It's more. I don't even call it an application anymore, I call it a notification document. You know. It's just changing the heading of what used to be an application. You still should be telling the owner's corporation. This is what my dog and I'll use the example as a dog. This is what my dog is. This is, use the example as a dog. This is what my dog is, this is its breed, these are its vaccination shots. You know, just providing a lot of information to them, a lot of committee members will go back and go. We don't want a dog. Sorry, you're outside the law. You know, it's really just notifying them. You're outside the law. You know, it's really just notifying them. So once the dog has been in, then as long as everything goes smoothly, happy days. That's normally not the case. Some look. I've had owners who have had in a two-bedroom two Great Danes you never hear a peep out of them.

Speaker 1:

Like you know, you're going to get small little ponies on the application for a nice big country house. I mean, where does it stop and start?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Look, I've had owners who have had tiny little, you know, not chihuahuas, but something along that line. They bark and the Great Danes are quiet. So you've got to look at it on a case-by-case basis every time. Totally. So it comes down to the Act. We have the Stratoscopes Management Act, then we to the Act. We have the Stratus Crimes Management Act, then we have the regulations. The regulations just give us details of what definitions are and what they mean. So Section 137B is the Act and Section 36A is the regulations. 6a is the regulations.

Speaker 2:

So if we just go through what the actual scenario is of the act, it it says if you've got a bylaw that bans an existing bylaw that bans pets, yeah, it's not enforced, it's, you can't enforce it. Um, so owners and executive committees that have still got these old bylaws should be then getting these bylaws changed and then specifically writing in a new bylaw that defines what the nuisance could be and there's steps and procedures that they've got to do that be. And there's a step, there's steps and procedures that they've got to do that. So the act basically says an animal's uh, unreasonably interfused with an occupant or the enjoyment of another lot owner on common property. That's a very simple little line. However, you've then got to be able to show and document if that is a breach in itself. You know, yeah, if the dog bark once, is that, um, disturbing the peace and enjoyment? So, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2:

When we write, when we write bylaws and get bylaws drafted for people, we sit there and go. An animal cannot consistently bark. And then you've got to define the time frame of consistently. Is it an hour length over one month, or is it five minutes every 15 minutes and repeating? You know so this is the. These are the issues. This is why bylaws are so detailed. You're using that as your point of reference, basically to evict a dog, and let me tell you, the owner of the animal will fight tooth and nail to keep their fur babies in their household. They love them to pieces and you know you may, as an owner's corporation, want to spend $5,000 on getting rid of the animal going through court. The other owners, as we saw in the Cooper's case, are prepared to go to the appeals court and spend what they have to because it's part of their family yeah.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, it's part of their family, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, it's complicated.

Speaker 2:

What we're looking at is.

Speaker 1:

They're companions.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know they're not referred to as fur babies for nothing. You know, I mean, if you were told you have to get rid of one of your children, I mean I just toss a coin and you know one of them's gone, but you know of them's gone. But, but you know, um, but try to get rid of my dog. No, no, no, no, no, no, um, you know, whatever it costs. So, look, it really comes. It's a very simple scenario but it can get into some very legal technicalities.

Speaker 2:

So what we're always suggesting if you're a tenant and you're having an issue, you can come to us and we can get it sorted. If you're a landlord and an owner, I should say, and you're having difficulties with your owners corporation in getting an animal approved, we've got you, go to our website, have a look and we can give you some further, more detailed information. From there we can assist. If you're an owner's corporation on the executive committee and you believe that the animal is causing a disturbance, then on the other side of the coin, we can assist with those executive committee members and saying, well, look, this is what you need your bylaw to be changed to present that back to your strata.

Speaker 2:

Manager, rescind your old bylaws, put the new bylaws through. Bylaws, put the new bylaws through. And as long as people have got a clear and precise understanding what the rules and regulations are, both sides, all parties, understand and there are times where some animals are a disturbance. We've had people that have got uh pets. They're not home during the day. The animals board, it barks, it rips up carpet, it scratches fire doors and it's not the fault of the animal but it's disturbing other people yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

So 2025 will be a big year, you know, for pets.

Speaker 2:

It will be. Look, I'll give you just a couple of what the regulations actually say. What is interference is fairly clear. It says the animal must not make persistent noise fairly clear. It says the animal must not make persistent noise. It can't repeatedly run or chase other occupants in a strata unit block it repeatedly, is causing damage, it's engaged in dangers I should say the health of another occupant. And that's normally on some green grass area You've got animal waste which is highly toxic. Gardeners and cleaners do refuse to clean that up because of the health aspect. The strange thing is, if the dog does its waste on the nature strip and you don't clean up, the fines from council are horrific. But if you take the dog around the backyard in your common property area and it does the same thing, then the owner's corporation and you don't pick it up, then why should the owner's corporation go to that expense? And these are things that you've got to look at. The strange one is that we always find is that the animal has a persistent offensive odour.

Speaker 2:

I've always liked that expression, um, I like the way legislation's framed. I uh, I've used that expression in some of our um letters and documentation for them. But yeah, what that's showing is that when you are trying to explain to the lot owner we have a problem with your pet, all those items must be date stamped letters going to them. So it's not you've caused one incident, it's got to be repeated. So executive committees must then send out um, you know, notices. You're in breach of this. Um, we're putting you on notice. You've got to keep a pretty good uh working file and it's only after those repeated um breaches have occurred then you can go to NCAT and then you can make an application to have the animal removed. Now NCAT will support that based on the evidence. If the evidence is weak, that's yeah. That's just not sufficient. Yeah, I mean, in two letters is not repeated, you know, if it's two letters of a breach over a nine-month period, no, it's got to be persistent. You know, and these are the issues that owners' corporations are facing- yeah, get that right.

Speaker 1:

But I do have to say the buildings that from an agent's perspective, the buildings that have the most success balancing pets, owners, tenants, whether they're for or against, it's setting up everything to just try and be the right thing from the start, like giving all that information about the pet's breed, you know, the vaccinations, including some photos of the pet on the way in, just so the owners are familiar with what you know is going to be in there. I've seen some buildings even going to the effort of installing poo bags, you know, in the common property areas, to make people's life a bit easier.

Speaker 2:

Like easier. Yeah, it's over half the. And what we have suggested is keep a pet register. It's not a requirement under the Act by any stretch of the imagination, but I've spoken to executive committees and go, well, how many pets do you have in your apartment block? And they go, we have no idea. Yeah, I think jones got one, john's got one, you know we're a block of 50 or a block of 200, and they have no idea. Um, and so if there is barking, well, is it jones dog? Is it bill's dog? Is it Bill's dog, you know? And so we always suggest, when the notice of a pet going in, just keep a file.

Speaker 1:

Totally. And that makes it easier to manage the sort of just cleaning of the common areas. You know, maybe do an extra clean if you've got an extra few things in. It all helps work with each. So, yes, some really good advice, but just remind us the name of your company if people need to find you.

Speaker 2:

So it's Stedman, williamson and Hart and we are specialists in all aspects of Strata. While we are Strata managers, we only manage compulsory appointments, so we're not there looking to become strata managers of a normal strata block. We have to be approved by the tribunal and therefore, again, we're experts in quite a number of fields and we have lots of advice and we have no problems giving an executive committee to work with their existing strata managers, because if we can get owners to work harmoniously with their existing um committees owners corporations and their strata managers, owners corporations and their strata managers then that's, that's the main thing. But if someone is having an issue, you know, be it on the executive committee, we can help them and show them what they've got to. Go back to the strata managers.

Speaker 2:

Look, a lot of strata managers are incredibly busy people. You know. Their portfolio might be 80 to 100 buildings they're managing. If you're not getting a response sometimes it could be because they're lazy, but nine times out of ten is because they're receiving hundreds of emails a day. A barking dog, uh complaint. While important, and that would be your biggest bugbear they may be dealing with a death. They could be dealing with a broken down lift. They could be dealing with a hundred and other things and you're repeated. So you can be more than happy to come to us. We can give you the advice. We can draft something up for you. You just flick it back over to your strata manager or your committee and review it. We're happy to assist.

Speaker 1:

I called you the super nanny of strata last time, but it's uh yeah I think mark said the professor, but you know, yeah but, anyway this thing is going to help a lot of people yeah, look, um, the best idea is always go.

Speaker 2:

Go to our website. I think you're going to put a link on later, um, go to our website, um. If the information's not more enough detailed for your specific case, flick me a personal email, um, and I'll respond, and we'll be more than happy to assist anyone. There you go have a really good day, my pleasure. Thank you, Billy. Enjoy everybody and happy holidays coming and everyone be safe, please.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. Thanks so much, Greg Legend.

Speaker 2:

Pleasure Bye, see you later. Bye pleasure, bye, bye.